The Importance of Life Outside of Pick Up

A recent post I made on RSDN, which I think highlights the importance of keeping other things in your life, and internal ego battles:

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Lately I have noticed some pretty large and probably unhealthy emotional ups and downs that I have been going through. I’d like to think I am not outcome dependent, but there is a distinct correlation between how many good sets I did the night before or how much I am getting laid, and my mood.

God, a year ago I would have killed to be in the position I am in now. Now that I have seen the possibilities of my potential within this community, I find myself always wanting more. I can go out, have a shit load of fun and get, for example, one number, I’ll be happy as fuck the next day cause last night was wicked, and the number flakes.

State crash.

I’ll think “Oh it’s all good, the next one might not be the same”, and simultaneously “what the fuck did I do wrong this time, why doesn’t this one like me?”

Then there’s a little battle for a while before I either come out content or pretty low. Most of the time I can just sleep it off overnight and I feel fine or even awesome the next day. Maybe that high will last for a few days, I’ll send out some messages, facebook some girlies etc etc. Responses might come back. All is well and good, until the excitement dies off or responses don’t go the way I want them to.

Progressive state crash.

Then I’ll go out again, have a crazy night and maybe make out with a couple of girls, get some numbers and rip the city a new arsehole. I’ll be all validated, write about it (for the forum and to refer back to on down times) and be happy.

Start the cycle from the beginning.

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This is happening at a bare minimum of once a week. MINIMUM. Sometimes this cycle occurs 2-3 times per week, depending on how much I go out and what else I’m getting up to. This can’t be fucking healthy. This shit makes people bipolar.

I noticed that today I read my bootcamp report for the third time as a reminder of what I am capable of. Bootcamp was only ONE WEEK ago. Jesus.

I realise now that although it might pump me up a little, it is probably serving to promote that silly pimp image, which I then think I have to live up to. When this doesn’t happen, bet your ass there will be a state crash.

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Why is this happening?

I have realised than since I have been going out regularly and trying to get this handled so quickly, everything else has fallen off the cards.

Life now consists of work, gym, going out and recovering from the lack of sleep between going out and going to work. I barely even have time or the drive to play the guitar sitting a couple of meters away from me, which I loved prior to this.

My passions? I couldn’t even tell you. I like hooking up with girls. I like feeling good. I like self development. (Two things I do love are travelling and snowboarding, both which can only happen once or twice a year)

Even ‘feeling good’ is happening less and less. I used to walk around constantly happy, but I feel this roller coaster is KILLING ME.

I think that the more I get into this, the more things I enjoy are falling away, resulting in more outcome dependence, causing huge state fluctuations and a LOT more negativity from my part. Disturbing trend.

—– END OF ORIGINAL POST —–

Conclusion from Replies

By Red Leader

Ego feeding cycle.

Your ego eats, then once it runs out of fuel, you get hungry and have to fill it back up with validation and elation….

Imagine taking out that WHOLE first section in your post and crossing a big line through it….

staring at it blankly…. stillness, thoughtless and peace….

that’s all it takes to rid yourself of these ups and downs.

and all these ups are 100% artificial anyway. It’s just the false sense of fulfillment your ego gets with validation.

By Leiv

Being a pimp has become part of your egostructure.

This leads to outcome dependence. You need ongoing results to keep your egostructure from falling apart.

Back when I was a chode I used to play Counterstrike a lot. In the beginning I enjoyed playing it. This ended when I became good. Being a good player became a big part of my egostructure. When I sucked I would become very agitated.

It felt like my identity was in danger. How stupid.

Also I did not have a lot of other things going for me in my life. This made being good even more important to keep my little identity validated.

This proces is very addictive. You need to play good to feel good. This causes anxiety because YOU CAN NOT CONTROL THE GAME.

I don’t think much more needs to be explained. Pick up can be incredibly addictive. So much so that I managed to drop everything else in the hope of mastery in this area. This is the absolute best way to make your identity that of a ‘pick up artist’, which is a terrible place to be. Nothing could make you as outcome dependent as this. Outcome dependence is one of the most unattractive qualities you can have to a woman. While I think it is OK to go all out at this for a few months, like I have, there reaches a point where you really need other things to fall back on, something else to look forward to outside of pick up.

Time to get to work on finding some new hobbies

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RSD Bootcamp Experience

I recently took a bootcamp with RSD. This story is copied and pasted from their forum

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Forewarning: This is going to be pretty big. Change to a comfortable chair and get some popcorn.

This is for both my record and a reference for those unsure about taking a bootcamp, so everything will be covered.

Gold Coast Bootcamp, 16-18 May, 2008.

It’s Monday morning and I don’t know if I’m hurting from this head cold or from a weekend of identity battering realisations and reality shattering events.

get it in ya’

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Background

Bootcamp was my one year anniversary of introduction to the community. The first 10 or so months were spent dabbling around in various material and applying some attitudes and random lines here and there to predominantly social circle interactions.

The next two months got serious after I met a dedicated wing, going out night after night, making approach after approach. Some nights would flow perfectly and some would royally suck. I got some success, but by fuck was it inconsistent. Something always didn’t feel right. Sometimes I felt like I was putting it on. Sometimes I felt like I was convering something up.

Time for a change. Phase 2.

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Friday

In the days leading up to bootcamp, my state encountered a series of epic fluctuations between extreme nervousness and extreme excitedness. Nervous that I wouldn’t “blank slate” myself enough to be moulded my the instructors. Excited because of what the weekend could potentially do to me.

After some chilling on the beach with Storm and Jrad, reading the RSD manual and writing letters to our inner chode, I discovered our apartment had no hot water. Nothing like a cold shower and a red bull to pump you up.

We bus it to the Crowne Plaza. I’m practically running around in circles I’m so buzzed, so I plant my arse in a chair in an attempt to regain some composure, and wait. The other students show up. We span about 20 years, with a range of professions from salesman to engineer. All very cool guys, ready to get this shit handled.

Saad and Alex walk in, and we are quickly told to fucking committ, or get the hell out of there. We are given two chances to leave. Like hell was I moving. We are told to clean slate everything we know and put ourselves in the instructors hands, ready for some subconscious programming. Like every report I’ve read, you quickly realise how down to earth and normal these guys are. Just a couple of guys who decided they wanted something more out of life and comitted to this shit.

Letters to our inner chodes have soon been used for ass wiping, been spat on, pissed on and flushed.

Saad covers a fair bit of material, nothing entirely new, but sums it up in ways that are a shitload easier to understand then the mess of information you’ll find on an open forum.

Some of the stuff we covered:

• We are the coolest mother fuckers in our own realities
• The importance of masculinity in a society with blurred polarity
• The subjective nature of value (you can’t win all of them)

And then the 4 pillars of natural game, complete with a little dance:

1. Core confidence
2. Giving Value
3. Assertive Dominance
4. Unreactive

We cover the “number one rule of natural game” – Whatever you feel, they feel. This is big. As it turned out, this rule would be repeatedly hammered into my skull over the weekend when I lost soon after I felt myself enter a non-relaxed or awkward state.

After a creativity exercise, we head to the venue. Melbas.

Catwalk exercise. We take turns doing retarded struts in the dining area and then exaggerate them to look like complete fucktards in front of everyone in the place.

“I do not give a fuck what anyone thinks of me”.

Each instructor takes three students. I’m with Alex.

I go into set 1 with a opener given to me by Alex “I’m on youtube, I’m famous”

I hook and soon Alex has sent in Storm (another student) to wing and moves to the bar nearby to watch/hear us in action. Starting out improvising random BS, I sort of switch to direct, fail to isolate and quicky revert to verbal diarrhea.

Insta feedback from Alex is that I keep saying things that I think I am supposed to, rather than just say whatever the fuck I want. This way I burn out quickly. Expression not impression.

I introduce myself to some sets on stools and just sit at their table and vibe. Travel, funny stories, passions. I am unreactive to some of their bullshit, and give them shit when they deserve it (unreactive not unresponsive). I am told that “I’m such a cool guy” repeatedly by a couple of hotties. Meanwhile I’m just talking about random stuff I had done like sitting on the beach and having cold showers. Mindfuck.

All goes well until I bust out some silly gamer type bullshit, or try to fill in gaps in the coversation with inauthentic crap. I start feeling awkward…. “shit I have to keep these girls around, how?”

Whatever you feel, they feel. Sets lost. Lessons learned.

Alex makes the point that I should be going for the number 5-6 minutes into set. That way, the girl is talking to you as a guy who has her number, as opposed to some random fool. Good advice.

I’m sent into a five set of girls, and told to pay specifically more attention to one. After some vibing and storytelling, all of her friends disappear. She “has to go to the dancefloor”. Claw is engaged, she isn’t going anywhere. I get the number and make out. Call her HBCurly

Alex informs me to incorporate more push into my physicality, and gives some examples. He decides he is only going to throw me into the hottest from here on in. My heart enters my throat.

Some glitterbomb is very unreceptive to my verbals, and dances around almost as if I’m not there. Alex yells at me to get physical and I am litterally pulling this girl in and throwing her around with no protest. I get denied the makeout and eventually get the shits with her flightiness and eject.

Alex – “how did she react to the physical dominance?? she loved it”. Point made.

I get pounced on by a girl from a previous set so take her to the dance floor and makeout in front of the row of chodes who laughed at me when getting denied by an earlier girl. Alex tells me to go for the pull. I’m thinking fuck, what about the rest of my bootcamp. My watch tells me that I can lay this girl and get back before 2am.

I am confronted by a wannabe alpha chode who she apparently turned down earlier in the night. I am unreactive to his shit and walk off with the girl, who is now more attracted.

Back at her place, she gets all flighty, whinging about her drunk friend who she can’t find. She bullshits that she can’t have sex while her friend is out there somewhere. I talk illogical nonsense for a bit, but still no go. I give up and run back to the club to waste as little time as possible. I aint paying $2K to muck around with some crybaby.

Alex later tells me an illogical STORM of bullshit probably would have got her out of her head. Is there anything this guy doesn’t know?

HBCurly txts me so I find her and recommence makeout. Even though her friends fucking love me, I somehow eventually lose her.

Alex makes the point that my state has crashed since I wasn’t in the club for so long. Lucky it’s the end of the night.

We head back to the motel and debrief. The final debrief wrapped it all up and was so fucking detailed I can’t even begin to describe it. These guys are so ridiculously dedicated and unbelievably smart at this stuff. I’ll also note Alex and Saad went almost an hour overtime.

Our feedback is split into three major points each, mine being getting more physical, leading and self-entertainment.

It almost sonuds like a normal FR, but there’s a massive difference. You may notice that I mention Alex between EVERY set. That’s because in between, there he is to pump you up and give you small chunks of feedback which you use to calibrate between sets. The guys are even yelling at you while you are in set “ISOLATE”, “MAKE OUT”, “DANCE FLOOR!”, while juggling a handful of other guys.

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Saturday

We meet in the afternoon, and get some more feedback on the previous night. I’m a zombie after a night of approximately zero hours sleep. We get some fashion advice and head out for some daygame in two 4 person teams. Sets are scarce but we make do.

Seduction Saturday is all about getting physical. We go through some various kino techniques and practice the claw on other students. Alex ends up with a red patch on his forearm from claw practice. Yeah we were a little too strong at first.

We are told to use intent, sexual tension, maybe a plotline and heavy escalation, so long as the girl is not clearly uncomfortable.

We are told to use hyper focus to draw in the girl we want, creating the ‘bubble’ with her, giving little attention to everything outside of it.

Saad tells us we are not allowed to eject until we either isolate, get the number or makeout. Ouch

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No warm-ups tonight. Straight into it. Assemble A-Team.

Same venue, downstairs is dead so we head up to the dance club area. I see Alex do a demo for the first time. Within 2 minutes he picks up this girl and spins and throws her around… relentless physical contact even though sometimes she pretends she isn’t into it. He gets the makeout.

I get thrown into a fuckload of sets. Friday had relatively low blowouts and a smaller number of long sets. Saturday had blowout after blowout after blowout usually due to highly uncalibrated physical escalation, being a pussy, or nearby boyfriends. This is the fucking pain night.

Alex makes me walk around the bar, making eye contact with every girl in the place chanting “My game is a 10″ in my head, and then go stare in the mirror for a good 15 seconds. Fuck you feel strong after this little exercise.

Blow out, boyfriend, told to leave, boyfriend, fiance, blow out. Argh! This venue is FULL of taken women and their partners. Alex sends me into a lone wolf, fucking hot. I can go direct on this one and really mean it, this is as authentic as it gets.

“Hey….. you are so fucking adorable …… I had to come and meet you……. I’m James”

She blushes and grins. After about 2 minutes of escalation she tells me her bf is at the bar. This chokes my escalation, but sure enuogh a couple of minutes later the bf arrives. I say hi, vibe for a minute and piss off. Gawddammit.

I’m having a lot of trouble talking shit to amuse myself in sets tonight. Alex points to a girl and commands me to talk nothing but shit. “I like squirrels”. It goes well and after 5 mins it turns to vibing, eventually she annoys me too much so I switch hyper focus to her friend, make out with her and eject. Self amusement wins out.

Alex and I position ourselves in the venus fly trap of desire, and I am told I have to do at least 5 approaches on my own before the end of the night. Clawing ensues. A random girl brushes against me and I do my most convicted claw of the night. She tries to run off but I lock her in and she melts. Twenty seconds later we are making out. She’s a shit kisser, I eject. Back to Alex, who shows me the photos he took. Haha

I open a nearby girl – “Whats a better job, lawyer or viking” – and remember to hyper focus. A minute in, the friends just leave, without me even acknowledging them. I get the digits and don’t get physical enough. She is visibly disappointed and leaves.

After more blowouts I tell Alex I need a slap cause I can barely keep my eyes open. No slap, just lime juice in the eye. Wooooo!

I open while limed, and once again get surrounded by boyfriends. Jesus fucking christ.

I do a half arsed bitch claw and Alex deals me some shit. “what’s this pussy shit!?”, while making an exaggerated impression of my lame attempt. He makes it quite clear I’m not going to do that again. That’s what these guys are there for

More blowouts, more fun. More Woooo!

Why cab it home when you can jump in the limo just outside. Fuck yeah.

Once again, the guys go almost an hour overtime on debrief.

I am told that I am stifling the masculinity in me, I am holding myself back.

What the fuck does it say on your licence?

(Male, if you didn’t know)

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Sunday

Extended feedback session. I need to cultivate my sense of entitlement. I fucking deserve these girls.

Insist and persist. Make it your fault. Masculinity.

• Drop the ego of getting good with girls
• I am scared of my own potential
• A sense of entitlement is crucial
• The only thing holding me back is me

Saad says he doesn’t think indirect is going to work for me. I’ve hated this indirect shit from the beginning. That’s the stuff that doesn’t feel right, which I mentioned at the beginning. It took hearing Saad say this to realise it.

These guys really know their shit. Countless times they told me things and I would think “ohhhh yeah…. that’s exactly what I’m like….. I can fix that”

Amazing.

We go do some more day game, and Saad gives us a proper break down on it and does a demo. I have a couple of cool sets, and one complete choke. I mean full on choke. Something I have never experienced before. I can hardly talk. Eject. Fucking painful.

I make a girl scream. Don’t use kino from behind on opening during the day. LOL

We wrap up the day with a session on phone/day2 game, and the guys give us all personalised day2 plans using venues in our local areas. Cool as.

Behind us is a kebab shop, with the slogan ‘get in in ya’.

Insta team name.

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Wrap Up

Natural Game

Expect a good reaction. You’re an attractive guy, twenty times rarer than any 9 or 10 girl.
Confidence.

Hyper focus. Intent. They need to know why you are there. Sexuality is valuable. Have fun and entertain yourself.
Give value.

To demonstrate masculinity, physicality is REQUIRED. Physical channels will ALWAYS override verbal channels. Have fun with it, set little challenges for yourself.
Assertive dominance.

You don’t give a fuck about energy changes in an interaction. They will test you to gauge how they are going to treat you. People only have as much power as you give them. You are a rock, solid as fuck. Is some silly girl being a bitch going to phase you? Fuck no.
Unreactive.

Friday I learned:
Drop the shit you think you need to say. Say what you want to say. Random funny shit, things you did in the last day/week/month, roleplay. Be social. Self entertain. Expression.

Saturday I learned:
Get physical. Pull them in. Small touches here and there with the occasional dominant explosion e.g. claw, pick them up and spin them. Move them around (LEAD). Isolate. Make it YOUR fault. Do it because it’s fun, not because you have to.

Integrate these two, and its all over red rover. Maintain the 4 pillars of natural game, and there’s no stopping you.

Give yourself permission to do this

There was so much more I learned over the course of the weekend, but I can’t articulate it yet. I’m still coming to terms with a few things and hopefully will figure some of it out in my next few nights out.
Thanks Alex and Saad, your dedication definitely did not go unnoticed.

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Seduction Community Variants – Natural versus Routine Game

The ever advancing Seduction Community has been responsible for taking multitudes of hopeless, socially awkward guys and turning their lives around, eventually achieving the lives they always wished they had. There are various ways guys go about achieving success with women, with the two most dominant sides being natural and routine game.

In early Community days, there was a general focus on routine game, basically meaning a series of lines, stories, witty comebacks and attitudes which were proven to establish a ‘connection’ with a girl. Recent times have seen a swing towards natural game, promoting work on inner game, self development and developing a confident core identity. The extreme of this being a complete indepence from any lines or canned (preplanned) material, trusting that “the self is always shinging through” and that alone is enough to get the girl. There are followers of both sides within the seduction community, some of which have no problem coexisting with the other kind, and some who continually flame.

The concept of routine game has a tendency to come off as creepy and manipulative. It isn’t hard to see why. Guys can go on the internet, find a bunch of lines which have been proven to work and use them to pick up women. Sometimes this material has nothing to do with the PUA, and may be a completely made up story or one that happened to someone else. Conversational starters known as opinion openers are sometimes used, with the intention of cutting off the reply to further the interaction and follow on with other attraction generating lines or routines. If you have no idea what I am talking about, there is plenty of information out there, just jump on google or hit the first wiki link.

I think the problem occurs when guys go out and use nothing but their routines, which esentially cover up their real identity, and fire off line after line to get the girl. While pickup can be viewed as any other skill like playing guitar or snowboarding, in that it takes practice and persistance to get anywhere, there is one major difference. Unlike the guitars and snowboards, women AREN’T objects, and by viewing them as such you become, simply put, a bit of a dick. This overuse of lines and having automated responses to almost any reaction by the girl has been dubbed as being a ’social robot’. While an extreme case, it is a bit dodgy. You could be this swirly twirly guru with tactics for every situation, covering up your actual core, or you could actually become an amazing person that girls want to be with.

Ok, it’s pretty clear I’m an advocate for natural game, but I can see why so many guys get sucked in by it and I can also see its merits. Routine game can seem like a magic pill for a guy’s problems with meeting and seducing women. Men, being logical creatures, can easily fall for a systematic approach to getting the woman (or women) of their dreams.

Over time, guys that go into the field to practice build up more and more confidence due to small successes here and there, and desensitise themselves to rejection. This confidence breeds success, which breeds more confidence, and so the cycle continues. So I guess there is merit in routines, since they can build some confidence into newbies, especially the really socially awkward guys. The ones who finally dragged themselves away from their World of Warcraft girlfriend and typed in ‘how to pick up girls’ into google. I think it’s a case of ‘fake it ’till you make it’ (please don’t keep faking it indefinitely). Note that there is a difference between confidence in lines and routines and confidence in yourself. If you take away lines from someone who is dependent on them, will he still be confident?

Now to the other side, natural game. Obviously people are out there getting laid, else you wouldn’t be here. Your dad didn’t need the internet to get laid. At the clubs, there are loads of guys who are just naturally good with women, hence the term ‘natural’. Wouldn’t it be just as good to act/be like these guys?

Becomming a ‘learned natural’ combines the behaviours of these guys with an acute understanding of social dynamics, forming an unstoppable combniation of confidence, status, presence and the ability to handle tricky situations and logistical issues as they arise. This way, seduction becomes part of who you are, rather than something you do.

The natural approach goes hand in hand with a lot of self development writings such as Tony Robbins, Eckhart Tolle and David Deida, aimed at improving all areas of your life and becomming ‘the man you were meant to be’. Some people view this as a bunch of hippie, new age bullshit. Personally, the quality of my life has increased a ridiculous amount with help of these three and assorted other authors, and that was before I was getting laid. For this reason, I couldn’t even try to find a negative thing to say about them.

Like anything with more than one side, there will always be slander between teams, friendly or unfriendly. Routine guys will claim the learned natural method doesn’t produce results and visa versa. Guys from both sides are getting results, it’s a fact. There is countless seduction companies out there claiming to be able to turn you into a pimp in a few days (magic pill mentality again!), and many of them produce results but it is never instant.

Whichever path you follow, there is one thing that always rings true. Without dedication and persistance you will get nowhere. Simple as that. Many of the ‘gurus’ of pickup have spent countless hours in field taking harsh rejections, slaps to the face and drinks poured on them. They get confronted by angry boyfriends, end up with crazy female stalkers and get publicly embarrased. Some have lost jobs, almost gone insane and battled rollercoasters of emotions. While I am definitely no guru, I have already encountered most of these things.

Is it worth it?

Fucking oath.

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